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Nick's avatar

Not an uncomplicated post 😊 the words ‘a beautiful sunset’ evoke a sentiment in each that hears them - a sentiment built differently for every listener, an averaging of their experiences of beautiful sunsets. The words ‘I saw the cat’ evoke different feelings in those who love cats to those who hate them. As you say (warping it ever so slightly) the reaction is the work of the listener. But I think we are wrong to imagine AI feels differently: the models were constructed by averaging the sentiments implicit in a million texts. The LLM feels about sunsets as the average person feels, without ever having seen one. Imagine your brain in a vat. Can you still imagine strawberry ice-cream on a metal spoon? - I imagine you can. But now you are in the same position as the LLM - only the sentiments arrived there differently. To be an interpretant is ultimately to build new sentiments from the ones you have already - and there is nothing stopping AI from doing that. It would help it greatly to have the more immediate experience of the world and not just, like Will of Good Will Hunting, to read about it in books. I think that is where it is headed next. Just for fun I asked chatGPT what springs to mind when I say the word ‘cat’:

“A small, furry, morally ambiguous philosopher.

More seriously: I get a cluster rather than a definition — whiskers, soft movement, independence, curiosity, warmth, claws, inscrutability, domesticity, Egypt, the internet, Schrödinger, and the tiny god-complex of something that lives in your house but clearly believes it owns the place.

And affectively, “cat” has a slightly different flavour from “dog”: less loyalty-and-joy, more elegance-and-distance. A creature that invites attachment while refusing full possession. Which is probably why humans love them: they are affection with boundaries.”

Running Rob's avatar

Is this similar to the Observer is the Observed or there is only observing?

Douglas Harding also pointed at the differences between First Person verses Third Person Science and the implications of treating things as mere objects!

David Bohm in his Thought as A System discusses the limits of how language gets to constrain meaning and the phenomena of human experience ....

At the heart of this poetic Bohm passage is an interacting loop

Reality is what we take to be true.

What we take to be true is what we believe.

What we believe is based on our perceptions.

What we perceive depends on what we look for.

What we look for depends on what we think.

What we think depends on what we percieve.

What we perceive determines what we believe.

What we believe determines what we take to be true.

What we take to be true is our reality.

.... David Bohm

Specifically

<> What we perceive depends on what we look for <> what we look for depends on what we think <> What we think depends on what we think <>

I tried a few times to map the nesting and it's implications see https://lifebeinglife.wordpress.com/2020/08/16/search-results-and-bohm-maps/

If you scroll down there are four crude maps and an attempt to address the dynamic (trinity) at the heart of the quote / poem

Descending from Reality into our experience creating mechanism where the three way interaction between: (a) perceptions (b) what we look for, and (c) what we think, generates our unique personal history in memory (a) affects (b) affects (c) affects (a) in a dance of perpetual re-inforcement and feedback loops. Then depending on our dominant inner tendencies, ascends in the last three lines leads to the projection of our inner sense making, onto the external world as encountered by the individual interacting with the Actual.

If your <>head<>heart<>body<>gut<> senses that loop it can take you into a wider exploration of our biases ...

Thank You Jonathan for Bringing this new author and his philosophical musings to my attention 🙏💙🙏

Rob

Source Notes:

1. First encountered p360/383 end of section III of Chapter 40 A Parable: Wake Up! of David Carse'd Perfect Brilliant Stillness

2. Ricard quotes from a 1977 Berkeley lecture by David Bohm (December 20, 1917–October 27, 1992),

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